Comments on: Free Events: The No-Show Problem http://www.viceclown.com/2009/11/15/free-events-the-no-show-problem/ tecnology | community | stuff Sun, 20 Jun 2010 23:56:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Reed Gustow http://www.viceclown.com/2009/11/15/free-events-the-no-show-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-282 Reed Gustow Sun, 20 Jun 2010 23:56:17 +0000 http://www.viceclown.com/?p=123#comment-282 Very late to this party but I like what PodCamp did. Charged for the event, had sponsors pay for all or nearly all of it, and donated the excess fees to a great charity, Covenant House. I don't think free is practical above a fairly low number, especially with the how-many-of-which-sizes-of-T-shirts-to-get problem. If there is food that can't easily be given away if not eaten, sized giveaways, or even items like books that can't easily be given away, you really need a good count, and charging is the best way to get that. Very late to this party but I like what PodCamp did. Charged for the event, had sponsors pay for all or nearly all of it, and donated the excess fees to a great charity, Covenant House.

I don’t think free is practical above a fairly low number, especially with the how-many-of-which-sizes-of-T-shirts-to-get problem. If there is food that can’t easily be given away if not eaten, sized giveaways, or even items like books that can’t easily be given away, you really need a good count, and charging is the best way to get that.

]]> By: Bruce http://www.viceclown.com/2009/11/15/free-events-the-no-show-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-168 Bruce Mon, 24 May 2010 18:26:34 +0000 http://www.viceclown.com/?p=123#comment-168 This discussion reminds me of economist Dan Ariely's study of the day care center in Israel that started fining parents when they didn't pick up their kids on time. Instead of reducing the number of late parents, fining them actually increased the number: The parents no longer felt guilty about flaking because they figured the money they paid made them even. If the goal is to reduce no-shows, charging them might not be the answer. If the goal is to raise money, I think there are better ways (raffle, optional donation on the day of the event, etc) This discussion reminds me of economist Dan Ariely’s study of the day care center in Israel that started fining parents when they didn’t pick up their kids on time. Instead of reducing the number of late parents, fining them actually increased the number: The parents no longer felt guilty about flaking because they figured the money they paid made them even.

If the goal is to reduce no-shows, charging them might not be the answer. If the goal is to raise money, I think there are better ways (raffle, optional donation on the day of the event, etc)

]]> By: salas http://www.viceclown.com/2009/11/15/free-events-the-no-show-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-32 salas Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:42:42 +0000 http://www.viceclown.com/?p=123#comment-32 This discussion reminds me of economist Dan Ariely's study of the day care center in Israel that started fining parents when they didn't pick up their kids on time. Instead of reducing the number of late parents, fining them actually increased the number: The parents no longer felt guilty about flaking because they figured the money they paid made them even. If the goal is to reduce no-shows, charging them might not be the answer. If the goal is to raise money, I think there are better ways (raffle, optional donation on the day of the event, etc) This discussion reminds me of economist Dan Ariely’s study of the day care center in Israel that started fining parents when they didn’t pick up their kids on time. Instead of reducing the number of late parents, fining them actually increased the number: The parents no longer felt guilty about flaking because they figured the money they paid made them even.

If the goal is to reduce no-shows, charging them might not be the answer. If the goal is to raise money, I think there are better ways (raffle, optional donation on the day of the event, etc)

]]> By: Geoff DiMasi http://www.viceclown.com/2009/11/15/free-events-the-no-show-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-31 Geoff DiMasi Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:36:33 +0000 http://www.viceclown.com/?p=123#comment-31 As you know, we charged $5 for a guaranteed spot for Ignite Philly. We sold 150 of the 300 spots. All of that money was donated to a charity (The Food Trust). The other 150 spots were free for first-come the night of the event. This may not be totally practical for those traveling, but maybe a hybrid like that could work. As you know, we charged $5 for a guaranteed spot for Ignite Philly. We sold 150 of the 300 spots. All of that money was donated to a charity (The Food Trust).

The other 150 spots were free for first-come the night of the event.

This may not be totally practical for those traveling, but maybe a hybrid like that could work.

]]> By: TedC http://www.viceclown.com/2009/11/15/free-events-the-no-show-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-30 TedC Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:18:50 +0000 http://www.viceclown.com/?p=123#comment-30 Charge up front, escrow, then refund for those who show. Total refund for early reservation, partial refund as date draws closer. Total cost for those who show up that day, or partial charge for stand-by wait list and refund if don't get in. I think there are lots of ways to creatively charge and cover costs in the event of no shows. Short of that, sponsors are the only other way to go. Good or bad, money correlates directly with value. Would you take a set of free tires and feel good about driving on them? Same tires priced at $150. First Price: "what's wrong with those tires that they're giving them away?" Second: "Wow! What a deal on those pirellis!" When setting a price, make it meaningful, people will come. Charge up front, escrow, then refund for those who show. Total refund for early reservation, partial refund as date draws closer. Total cost for those who show up that day, or partial charge for stand-by wait list and refund if don’t get in. I think there are lots of ways to creatively charge and cover costs in the event of no shows. Short of that, sponsors are the only other way to go. Good or bad, money correlates directly with value. Would you take a set of free tires and feel good about driving on them? Same tires priced at $150. First Price: “what’s wrong with those tires that they’re giving them away?” Second: “Wow! What a deal on those pirellis!” When setting a price, make it meaningful, people will come.

]]> By: JP Toto http://www.viceclown.com/2009/11/15/free-events-the-no-show-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-29 JP Toto Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:34:34 +0000 http://www.viceclown.com/?p=123#comment-29 @Chad, That's an interesting idea and article. @Bonniea, I love those ideas. Flexible ticket prices by demand is super interesting. I could see that approach creating some resentment by the people that pay more but the approach is certainly innovative. Of course, we'd need a provider gateway that would support a model like that. @All, I'm definitely NOT apposed to charging money up front - even a small amount. Certainly, it's an easy logical step. Seeing as how it's barcamp, though, I wanted to come up with a pricing model that is more innovative. I really love Randy's idea about charging for now shows because it effectively keeps the event free up front and uses a creative incentive to keep everyone honest. In short, this is definitely not a new problem but it feels like a fun opportunity to find an innovative way to try to mitigate it. @Chad,
That’s an interesting idea and article.

@Bonniea,
I love those ideas. Flexible ticket prices by demand is super interesting. I could see that approach creating some resentment by the people that pay more but the approach is certainly innovative. Of course, we’d need a provider gateway that would support a model like that.

@All,
I’m definitely NOT apposed to charging money up front – even a small amount. Certainly, it’s an easy logical step. Seeing as how it’s barcamp, though, I wanted to come up with a pricing model that is more innovative. I really love Randy’s idea about charging for now shows because it effectively keeps the event free up front and uses a creative incentive to keep everyone honest.

In short, this is definitely not a new problem but it feels like a fun opportunity to find an innovative way to try to mitigate it.

]]> By: Chad Kaufman http://www.viceclown.com/2009/11/15/free-events-the-no-show-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-28 Chad Kaufman Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:21:13 +0000 http://www.viceclown.com/?p=123#comment-28 Sorry for link fail: http://informationarchitects.jp/dynamic-pricing-for-digital-goods/ Sorry for link fail:
http://informationarchitects.jp/dynamic-pricing-for-digital-goods/

]]> By: Chad Kaufman http://www.viceclown.com/2009/11/15/free-events-the-no-show-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-27 Chad Kaufman Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:20:32 +0000 http://www.viceclown.com/?p=123#comment-27 Charging for no shows sounds brilliant. Especially because their reserved spot is essentially taking the spot of someone who may have really wanted to come to the event. IA had an interesting article a few days ago about dynamic pricing (http://informationarchitects.jp/dynamic-pricing-for-digital-goods/). Basically charging as demand goes up... This could possibly be applied to the Charge-if-canceling policy by charging more the closer it gets to the event. Start the cancellation charges a week before the event at $5 and increase the charge each day leading up the event. This may deter people from waiting too long to cancel and giving others that may not have a spot at the event time to plan their attendance. Charging for no shows sounds brilliant. Especially because their reserved spot is essentially taking the spot of someone who may have really wanted to come to the event.

IA had an interesting article a few days ago about dynamic pricing (http://informationarchitects.jp/dynamic-pricing-for-digital-goods/). Basically charging as demand goes up…

This could possibly be applied to the Charge-if-canceling policy by charging more the closer it gets to the event. Start the cancellation charges a week before the event at $5 and increase the charge each day leading up the event. This may deter people from waiting too long to cancel and giving others that may not have a spot at the event time to plan their attendance.

]]> By: bonniea http://www.viceclown.com/2009/11/15/free-events-the-no-show-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-26 bonniea Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:02:13 +0000 http://www.viceclown.com/?p=123#comment-26 Hear hear! At some point, I heard a friend comment about another friend's lateness with indignation that should the late-comer drop out they took away the opportunity from some else to attend. That they robbed the community of that other person's presence. From other the original post and people's comments it seems like there's a couple of goals: 1) Get as many people as want to attend to go through the doors - So if someone signed up 3 months ago and needs to drop out, someone can take their place 2) Provide just the right amount of stuff for everyone there - Ensure that those who do commit actually show up, thus reducing waste I like the idea of a penalty for non-attendance while giving people the opportunity to fix the problem themselves. Perhaps early on they give their ticket back to the pool. Perhaps a week ahead, they have to find someone themselves. BarCamp StubHub? There is also the idea of charging even a dollar. Something nominal that gets donated to the operational expenses, or directly to the Cause of Getting Everyone to Show Up. Hear hear! At some point, I heard a friend comment about another friend’s lateness with indignation that should the late-comer drop out they took away the opportunity from some else to attend. That they robbed the community of that other person’s presence.

From other the original post and people’s comments it seems like there’s a couple of goals:

1) Get as many people as want to attend to go through the doors
– So if someone signed up 3 months ago and needs to drop out, someone can take their place

2) Provide just the right amount of stuff for everyone there
- Ensure that those who do commit actually show up, thus reducing waste

I like the idea of a penalty for non-attendance while giving people the opportunity to fix the problem themselves. Perhaps early on they give their ticket back to the pool. Perhaps a week ahead, they have to find someone themselves. BarCamp StubHub?

There is also the idea of charging even a dollar. Something nominal that gets donated to the operational expenses, or directly to the Cause of Getting Everyone to Show Up.

]]> By: Randy http://www.viceclown.com/2009/11/15/free-events-the-no-show-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-25 Randy Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:37:14 +0000 http://www.viceclown.com/?p=123#comment-25 Maybe charging $5 would be enough to keep the non-serious attenders from registering but low enough to feel free to those that really want to attend. When something is free almost everybody will register "just in case" but $5 means pulling their credit card out. The money could go to paying for parts of the event, you guys (my favorite), or some charity *cough* shareurmeal.com *cough*. Anyway, you guys did a great job! If you need any help with anything next year let me know. Maybe charging $5 would be enough to keep the non-serious attenders from registering but low enough to feel free to those that really want to attend. When something is free almost everybody will register “just in case” but $5 means pulling their credit card out.

The money could go to paying for parts of the event, you guys (my favorite), or some charity *cough* shareurmeal.com *cough*.

Anyway, you guys did a great job! If you need any help with anything next year let me know.

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